Here it is the controversial JCPenny Commercial.
June 28, 2008
This is the commercial everyone has been talking about. Did you also know that this spot was awarded a Cannes Lions 2008 Film Bronze award..? Interesting..!
This is what we call in the biz a spec spot or spec commercial. Spec commercials are usually done by creatives from an ad agency in cooperation with a director from a separate production company to help everyone gain a great piece for their demo reel. Usually spec commercials are not never even shown to the client they are being made for. Basically its a fake commercial but its a great way to showcase ones talents in their respective art form. Ad Agency Creatives, Editors, Directors, Colonists and DPs all benefit from the practice of spec commercials. In this case JC Penny probably never even heard of this commercial until we all did.
This commercial was directed by Mike Long of Epoch films. Mike did an excellent job on this spot. I found myself totally drawn in. I’m not sure if it was the controversy surrounding the commercial or that it is just that good.
Controversial JCPenny Comercial SPEED DRESSING
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I guess you may not have seen the other JC Penny spot that links the brand to the war of terror by the same company…
It’s funny that Saatchi has to scam ads like this when agencies like Crispin does cut through breakout viral and integrated work for big names and paying clients.
I question the relevance of agencies like Saatchi, which can only do creative work by bypassing the client. This spot is done by Saatchi as no production agency will presume to be a client’s ad agency by doing this to win awards.
I don’t really think this ad is really any good in that it does not tie with the tagline and fails to connect with the key audience for JC Penny i.e. parents.
So what if it has gone viral? Interesting viral videos are a dime a dozen these days with limited lifespan. And most do not build brands or connect people to the brand in a meaningful manner.
I’m from Europe and I don’t understand what’s the controversy supposed to be all about–teenage sex, what the hell is controversial about that?
Yeah it’s a really cool advert but:
“Mike did an excellent job with narrative on this spot.”
You mean the one and only line of dialogue?
Wow, JCPenny clothes aren’t that good.
And what was so controversial again?
[...] http://dropkickmonkey.com/2008/06/28/here-it-is-the-controversial-jcpenny-commercial/ [...]
The idea was stolen from this video clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hsByIQ1rjM
haha, that’s cute. i liked the music.
Could anyone track down what song that is? I really like it.
OOOOOOOOOOO i know wht they r going to do. But it was aight.
lol after they repeated it (hinting that they were practicing, not banchmarking) I knew it was gonna go down a path in that general direction lol
Interesting concept, wish i had thought of it when I was younger. :p
It is briliant. And VERY well done. Don’t _you_ remember being a teenager?
I can definitely see why it is controversial, but this commercial had me in tears. Props to them.
Brilliant ad — thanx for sharing!
Who did the music? I didn’t see attribution but it sounds like Philip Glass.
I think its dumb.
You enjoyed it ? You like that kids have sex out of wedlock ? You like that sexual transmitted diseases that come with this “just good” fun ? You like the 40-50 million baby killing abortions that come with that ? You like that some freak thought of a commercial about kids timing their selves to have sex ?
As if america has not had enough of the abortions, diseases, kids raising kids, lack of family structure. At some point you might want to stop and think “hey how did we get to this decadent point here in the oh so late great usa ?”.
Maybe it has to do with your lack of culture or what you perceive as a culture..
Because it’s stating that JCPenny encourages it. That gives them a horrible image. Teen sex is OK, of course, but don’t advertise it. Teen pregnancy is no joke.
Not to mention, the ad has nothing to do with what JCPenny!!!
great ad for fun, however JCPenny shouldn’t do this
I like the music. The kids were good looking but what does this have to do with JCP? Tag at the end made no sense. I guess everyone missed the fact that the ad made no sense. This goes to show you that even people on these forums would rather note the sexual suggestion in this ad rather than discuss how out of place the ad is.
Um, there is absolutely nothing wrong with sex. It’s fear that makes you complain about sex, and abortions. Get a life.
Education would stop sexually transmitted diseases, as well as unwanted pregnancy, and open mindedness between parents and teens would instill them with the confidence to ask those questions that need to be answered.
Condoms, education, and open mindedness.
There is nothing wrong with this video, it’s cute and funny. Enjoy it for what it is, entertainment.
You can be naked for oral sex too.
The last scene: Should of faded to a shot of the girl at 9mths.. wearing the latest in’JCPenny’ maternity wear.. fade to brand logo. END
Now that would of been funny..
Kenneth please take your damn fascist right wing ultra conservative comment and stick it up your tight ass.
thank you.
God Kenneth, it is people like you in America that take the fun out of life. You think that sex and the human body is a cliche closet subject. I have news for you, get out of the cave you live in and get outside the box your momma taught you to live in. Life is short, if all you do is cover your eyes and hope nothing bad or good for that matter will ever happen to then you will undoubtedly miss out on some of the most Amazing, and incredibly beautiful things in life.
Kenneth:
Teen sex *is* going to happen, whether people stick their heads in the sand about it or not. America as a whole is doing a great disservice to our youth by taking an “abstinence only” stance when it comes to premarital sex. The reason there are so many abortions and STDs are because we have ended up with teenagers that don’t know where to find a condom, let alone how to use one.
That the current administration which takes the deep religious view of no sex until marriage has hurt the united states, and it’s youth.
It has nothing to do with culture – banishing people to ignore the strong feelings that they have for sexual satisfaction is asking too much of them, particularly when they don’t understand the feelings yet.
Sorry, but Kenneth is right. Sex *outside* of marriage has deleterious effects. But, the thing is, is that sex *inside* of marriage is a beautiful, God-given pleasure. If you think that God thinks sex is bad and shouldn’t be talked about then you have been misinformed. God created sex, God created pleasure. He did not create it for it to be bad and for us not to talk about it. The point is that anything good is created by God to be good and bring joy. It’s only when we twist it, partake of it in a wrong way, or in the wrong time does it become bad. God created sex for marriage and to bring about oneness between husband and wife in marriage, it’s when you have sex outside of marriage that it gets complicated, and can lead to unintended consequences.
Fox said:
“Um, there is absolutely nothing wrong with sex. It’s fear that makes you complain about sex, and abortions. Get a life.
“Education would stop sexually transmitted diseases, as well as unwanted pregnancy, and open mindedness between parents and teens would instill them with the confidence to ask those questions that need to be answered.
“Condoms, education, and open mindedness.
“There is nothing wrong with this video, it’s cute and funny. Enjoy it for what it is, entertainment.”
When sex is engaged in in the correct context of marriage none of these things would be an issue. STDs? Reduced to near nothing. Unwanted pregnancy? Not an issue. It’s not that sex is bad, or that the human body is evil, because neither of those things are true. It’s that sex out of context of marriage has consequences, consequences that at some point, no matter how educated, how prepared, how open will become evident. Condoms break, pills are forgotten, abortions can leave women unable to get pregnant later. I go to a Bible college and I took a class on marriage and family last semester. In it the president of the school took 2 hours to talk about sex, the human body, and the correct view. It’s not that it’s a taboo subject, it’s that a lot of people think that it is and have given the wrong impression to others.
Kenneth may be over-the-top in his expression, but is dead-on with what matters.
Just educatin’ a kid doesn’t mean he/she will do the smart thing.
But yo, bring it on, and just when you are in your income-producing years, you
can pay for this kind of irresponsibility. Let’s see just how much then you are for
the “free love”.
Just saying.
I’m not sure what the title of that music was but I’m sure it was something from Philip Glass.
Ken is absolutely right, but obviously we can’t convince anyone else of that.
Don’t worry Ken, they’ll all learn some day. Whether it is when they are in agony from AIDs, traumatized after having an abortion, raising a kid as a single parent at the age of 17, or in the afterlife when God casts His judgment upon them – they will learn.
It’s sad but true – the world will never learn from it’s past mistakes until it is too late.
Just because these ultra-conservative, Jesus-humping, right-wing nutcases annoy the hell out of me, I’m going to have extra sex this week.
Not only that, it will be completely outside the context of marriage, and if I’m lucky, it will be with more than one person.
Honestly, get lost, sex is great. Marriage is not. The United States has 50% divorce rates, so take your little marriage tirade and shove it.
P.S.: Personally, I love how many gay couples are now getting married in California. Haha! Eat that, you freaks!
Yea uhh I’m not worried about being judged by god because i don’t believe in fairy tales.
Here it is the controversial JCPenny Commercial….
This is the commercial everyone has been talking about. Did you also know that this spot was awarded a Cannes Lions 2008 Film Bronze award..? Interesting..!
This is what we call in the biz a spec spot or spec commercial. Spec commercials are usually d…
Teenage sex doesn’t cause teen pregnancy, ignorance does.
Sex is fun and it happens, protect yourself and explore.
Kenneth obviously has deep psychological issues stemming from religious brainwashing.
Also, some god didn’t create sex because, surprise god is a fairytale, all religions are. Grow up and open your eyes. Read a book. For starters read the Bible, it is the fastest way to become an atheist.
@ J, that was neither mature nor helpful, whether anyone changes their mind or not is not the point, as a Christian I am called to speak the truth in LOVE, not like I don’t care about everyone else. Your little rant about everyone dying or getting AIDS is not loving in any way and furthermore is a misrepresentation of God, the sin that Moses was excluded from the Promised Land for committing. So, if you are not going to speak the truth IN LOVE, please do not comment and give anyone a reason to blaspheme God’s name.
@ Calvin, what you do is your own business, I can’t sit here and condemn you for it because I’m just as much a sinner as you, all I’m trying to do is say what God’s opinion is on the subject. God love you no matter what you do and because of that I’m supposed to as well. It might not be easy for me to stomach what you say, but it doesn’t make a difference, you need Jesus just as much as I do, we are all sinners saved by grace. The apostle Paul himself said “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.” -1 Timothy 1:15b.
@ Bob, I’m sorry you feel that way. I know nothing I say can convince you of anything so I’m not going to. I just wish to suggest that you do the research into God’s existence honestly and come to your own conclusion.
@Kyle:
You said the word “God” more than 10 times in your posts. Therefore, no one will take you seriously.
Kyle: “I just wish to suggest that you do the research into God’s existence honestly and come to your own conclusion.”
I researched God’s existence and Science said “LOL”, because the only thing I found were freaks like you.
Haha, I see a lot of douches posting scripture and talking about premarital sex. Who says they’re going to have sex? Because they’re taking clothes off? Come on, you prudes, it’s the 21st century. There are a lot of things to do besides having sex. Dry humping, wet humping, masturbation, mutual masturbation, oral sex, foot jobs, anal… I could go on.
Unlike when you were a kid, and probably now, kids these days take their clothes *off* to have sex, instead of doing it in the dark with their dicks sticking out the holes in their underwear. HA!
Calvin, What I said can be boiled down to a completely secular “Sex before marriage complicates things, sex in marriage avoids any possible complications.” I humbly submit that I have said nothing hateful, or condemnatory, I presented the truth as I see it without attacking anyone. For a logical presentation of God I would suggest reading Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis for a philosopher’s views presented in a rational, logical way. If that’s your conclusion, then I really have nothing to say, you aren’t going to listen to me, so I don’t see the need to argue. Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. I’m not going to start with ad hominem attacks or have a debate with you. I said my peace, that’s all I have to say unless someone comes on here and starts attacking anyone in the name of Jesus because that’s wrong. I don’t see how I am a freak, but than again, those who are insane never think they are so I just might be and not know it. Lol
My mother worked as regional head of a department that deals with teenage pregnancy. She would throw up her hands at some of the attitudes and ideas brought up in this thread,. Mainly by you kyle beacuse you make reasonable points which are i’m afraid are simply logically flawed and while you take pains to divorce your ideas from there fundamental base in your religious beliefs the fact is that this is where you views come from. What that means is that you are bending logic around your preordained ideas of how things should be instead of looking at things logicically and drawing your ideas from what you find.
Is sex safer with a long term partner in any form let alone marriage? of course it is, so long as neither of you cheats and you have both been checked out and are clean of stds when you got together then it is much safer. Yet lets think about it in context, in an extreme example if i stay inside i’m much less likely to be hit by a car. Dose that mean to keep kids safe we should never let them out side ever? or do you think teaching the kids how to be safe is a better idea? and while i know most kids DO have to go out side at some point it is not inconceivable for a parent to never let a child on a road with out them there until there teenage years.
The point i’m trying to make is just beacuse one thing is less risky than another that when done right by educated people is in fact not all that risky at all… well to say that people should always take the less risky option is a joke even you don’t do that with everything in you’re life. Think about it for a bit and you will find many things you could do in a less risky way, most of them far more deadly and far less fun and safe sex. In other words you’re point is logicically flawed and i bet if any of us could see what you did over a week we could make you look like a hypocrite.
Next we have you’re blanket statement about there being no unwanted pregnancy with in a marriage is a utter joke. While the baby is much more likely to born and not put up for adoption that dose not at all mean it was wanted. I personally know of a number of couples who have had unwanted pregnancy for any number of reasons and one of those marriages broke down beacuse of a direct result of it.
So summed up you’re points are simply flawed and you’re logic is shaped to fit around you pre held beliefs than the truth about sex out side or marriage. I honestly hope you can see that and own up to it. Unless you don’t support good proper education about sex over the horror show that is the teaching of abstinence then no one at all can call you down for you’re personal beliefs about sex out side marriage which are perfectly valid for you. Just please do not try and hide behind a flawed logic to make you’re point seem anything more than the outcome of you’re beliefs. To not do so is far more insidious and down right wrong than the Jesus nut ball wack jobs that have posted in this thread. At lest they are truthful about what the believe and why.
Anyone know which misguided right-wing website has decided to make this part of their Troll crusade? Because, honestly, three right wing conservatives in a row is no accident.
Nice try, guys. Next time you want to pretend you’re just “average” readers, don’t cluster so close together — it’s pretty damn obvious you’ve been sent here.
Now run along home to Fox/McCain/worse before you hurt yourself. The Internet isn’t for people who can’t think for themselves.
I don’t understand what is wrong with it.
I mean in Europe we have wayyyyyyy more sexual explicit ads than this ones. Where I live even breasts, butts and every curve on a woman’s body except for her vulva can be shown explicitly in an advertisement.
Condoms commercials are common, and are always humorous and of course sex related. Some people could see them as an incentive… but here we see those things as common sense.
Some commercials feature the sound of orgasms.
And in any daytime TV program penises and vulvas can be shown as news, documentaries, etc etc. No one gets shocked with such things. Sex is no taboo. And condoms are given free loads of times in discos and bar areas and in schools also.
There’s also hotlines for sex, specifically for teens where they can ask their questions.
I live in western Europe.
“Every day matters” didn’t make sense to me until I saw this ad.
Kenneth H: you’re funny.
Why must you spew your left wing crap here? Do you think that anyone here cares that you hate America an all it’s Satan-loving degenerates? You are in the minority sir. Yes, I will concede that sex outside of marriage can have unfortunate effects on individuals, but it is not as if sex is some terrible beast that is destroying our youth. No, it is merely a perfectly natural and very enjoyable function of the human anatomy. Instead of preaching abstinence do your son, daughter, whatever a favor and buy them a box of condoms just in case they need them. Please go troll somewhere where people appreciate it.
She should just wear a skirt.
To the right wing evangelicals –
Clearly, your line of argument is flawed. God is dead.
@ Tim
Disclaimer: Everything I write is written from a Biblical view of marriage, truth, and relationships.
No, I never tried to say that the Bible is not the source of my belief, I merely tried to make the case logically so that people could ’see past God’ if you will. Some people automatically assume that when someone brings God into something that it’s not logical, I was just trying to make the point that they are logical as well as biblically based. I wanted to show that it makes sense.
Of course I’m going to use logic to make my point, faith and logic are not mutually exclusive. It’s called a worldview, how I view the world shapes my thinking. Just as I view the world through the lens of Scripture, you view the world through your own worldview. Worldview does not equal truth though unless you find the truth and conform your worldview to the truth. A worldview is a lens and it only shows things clearly when your base is true. There are not many truths for different people out there, there can only be one truth and either the Bible is it or something else is but there is an empirical standard somewhere that we can measure morals against to see if they are correct or not.
I’m not going to argue your points, I’m going to lay out what I believe so that you can respond to that and not what you think I said and any faulty logic I might have used.
You are correct that I assumed the ideal for marriage. When I said marriage I meant a functional traditional marriage with no cheating, clean slate STD-wise. I should have made that clear from the get go. That is also the source of my statement about unwanted pregnancy in marriage, most married couples that I know want to have children and there really isn’t such a thing as unwanted pregnancy in those marriages. The concept of unwanted pregnancy in marriage is foreign to my experience so I did not factor that in, thank you for clearing that up. I should have said that there is less likelihood of it rather than none at all.
My real belief on sex outside of marriage is that it is a sin, against the will of God, and like all other sins has a built in consequence. In this case the STD epidemic and unwanted pregnancy and abortion. That is the truth, sex outside of marriage has consequences that sex inside of marriage does not.
I don’t agree with traditional sex ed, that is one reason that I will homeschool my kids. I will teach my kids abstinence so that they will wait until marriage. I’m 18 and a virgin, abstinence has worked for me so far and I hope it continues to work. I’m saving my first kiss for when I’m at the altar too, it’s stems from my personal relationship with God and it would be really hard to remain pure without that. I don’t expect unbelievers to conform to morality, that’s what makes them unbelievers, I expect them to act like they do. All I’m trying to do is present God’s model for sex and marriage.
On one last point: You said that : “…you’re personal beliefs about sex out side marriage which are perfectly valid for you.” My beliefs are either the truth or they are not, they are either good for everyone or no one. This is not a subjective issue like taste, this is an objective issue. So there is no “personal truth” here, there is truth and not truth. Truth is not relative.
I found this article on digg btw.
tehe! thats funny. They was practicing speed dressing so they dont get caught!
thats epic stuff right there.
I respect everyone’s right to a different point of view.
However, Kyle stop wasting hours writing comments on “Dropkick Monkey.” It’s lost productivity like this that makes me cringe.
uhh….get away with shopping at JC Penny right…that’s the message…cool…i like the sex twist to be honest…
I agree with Kenneth. Teens are not in the emotional mind-set to understand what sex is really suppose to be. The sad fact is, niether are many adults.
Yeah, the problem isn’t sex. The problem that we are facing as a society is even deeper, and teen sex, high devorce rates, and STDs running rampit are just the symptoms of a much bigger problem.
Today, kids and teens are lost because there is no one showing them how a man should treat a woman, how it’s better to respect your body and your partners body by waiting for mariage for sex and that level of commitment. There are no real good examples in the lives of so many teens. And honestly it’s the fault of men who choose not to take responsibility and rasie their children.
Too many parents are on their own, when it was never meant to be that way. The American Family is dieing, and so many woman are forced to raise a child on their own. And while that single parent tries to manage life, raise a child, and carry all the burdens of this world alone, this leaves them no time to be an example to their children of how to live a full life.
Sex is not the problem. Teens have been, and are always going to have sex, and no, I don’t think it’s right either. But, until men start standing up for whats right, and being there for their children, and start rebuilding the family, than kids are going to seek out an example to follow in the only thing thats around all the time; their friends and the media.
The media is not suppose to be the example for kids and teens. The example is suppose to come from a strong unified parental unit, mother and father who have their roles and take on the responsibility that has been given them to carry.
Without that stable foundation of a fathers love and care, there is no wonder why teen girls seek love at such a young age. And without the example of a father who treats his mother with respect and love, there’s no wonder why teen boys think the only way to show a girl love is to have sex with them. Why is this all happening? Because that’s what movies, tv shows, and the friends of kids now days say is the way to show love.
Sex is a beautiful blessing, and the ultimate connection between two people. But it shouldn’t be made until there is a deeper love found only in those that commit their hearts and bodies solely to one person. Without that example from a father and mother who love each other and devote themselves to each other and to setting that example for there kids, than yeah… you get this.
And you know what? JCPenny… it’s a business. This is an ad campain capitalizing on what’s popular today. That’s what companies do. They shouldn’t be viewed as a moral guide for anyone, at any time.
We are only seeing the tip of the ice berg.
@ J
“or in the afterlife when God casts His judgment upon them”
Are you saying that God is now a ret pally?
I mean, I have heard a lot of talk about this “God” figure and he sounds like a pretty mixed up individual. I think our nation of apparent disloyalty to him can help it, wouldn’t you agree?
I’m an agnostic guy who is pretty open-minded, but the people cursing and randomly calling Kyle a ‘freak’ and so on are acting more like the judgmental ultra-conservatives than he is. He isn’t condemning anyone to brim stone and hell fire.
I know it’s the fad to say everything about religion nowadays is hokey, but to be truly intelligent and open-minded, as some of you seem to be claiming to be, you take in all opinions presented curtly and friendly (as Kyle is trying to do), and debate the point. Having your own opinion is fine, but o not resort to personal attacks.
What`s the controversy? That J.C. Penny still makes really boring clothes?
I see nothing controversial at all.
I do see an attractive girl’s hot panties though-REOW! I love girls who wear colorful panties like that..a nice closeup to say the least.
Teen pregnancy is not a problem? Sorry – but I know plenty of teens who have had children and it IS a problem.
More Grandmothers in their 70s are taking care of kids now, and the new parents AND their children have it much tougher. Yes – there is thankfully a LOT more support these days, but what’s so bad about waiting???
Say what you will, and do what you want – but nature always has it’s consequences no matter how much you plug your eyes and ears.
A suggestion – why don’t you volunteer at some elementary schools and talk to some of the kids… try EDUCATING YOURSELF.
Kyle: Seriously, if your going to believe things that ’someone told you’ an ‘invisible superhero’ said, over your own body… your really losing control.
I’ve had plenty of sex before marriage, never had an STD, and never gotten anyone pregnant (safe sex works). I also think its unfair to state that ’sex before marriage is a sin’ as a truth. Sex is fun. Fun with a few avoidable risks.
The commercial was slightly quirky, but generally not that interesting… all the people creating a ‘controversy’ around it are only harming their own cause, as it is now being seen by many many people who would never have seen it otherwise.
[...] you also know that this spot was awarded a Cannes Lions 2008 Film Bronze award..? xmen sneak peakread more | digg [...]
The only thing wrong with this ad is that the kids timed themselves from a partially-clothed start.
Excellent!
I always like to view JCPenny in something new. I like this ad very much. Hope to see penny in future also with such type of ads
Thanks
To let everyone know GOD is NOT a Fairy tale!!!!!!!!!!
[...] great at targeting middle age moms who are, I would imagine, their main target. Thanks to digg and dropkickmonkey.com for the link. 30. June 2008, 03:01 o’clock [...]
it’s controversial because this commercial is saying it’s ok to have sex at a young age. No need to write a fucking book in the comments section. Go ahead, get your 14 year old girlfriend pregnant. See if I care!
Kyle… it’s people like you that make people like me really really dislike religious people. You’re giving them a bad reputation. “My beliefs are right, and ONLY mine.” That just sounds arrogant.
Look, you can tell us not to have sex all you want, we’re still gonna do it. Not you or all your bible-thumping friends are going to stop it. God/Allah/FSM himself could come down from the sky with all that terrible wrath we hear so much about but never see, and tell me to get off my girl, and I’d kick him in the nuts for interrupting me.
And yes I liked the commercial, though thankfully I don’t have to be as sneaky as they do. Basement bedrooms ftw!
PS: Kyle, You’re not even gonna kiss anyone until you’re married? You sir are gonna be *awful* in bed. She’ll probably leave you for the pool boy.
disclaimer: the preceding was from a dirty-minded smutty bastard with a like minded girlfriend, who couldn’t possibly be religious because it would distract him from love, both the physical and otherwise.
@ Kyle: me too. I was also referred here by digg.
the commercial is quite funny.
[...] JCPenny Commercial var disqus_url = ‘http://www.haroldfudge.com/blog/2008/06/30/links-for-2008-06-30/ ‘; var disqus_title = ‘links for 2008-06-30′; var disqus_message = ‘%0AJCPenny Commercial%0A’; View the entire comment thread. « links for 2008-06-29 [...]
Zzzzz boring.
If you teach kids that sex is bad they’re going to want to do it.
If they don’t know about condoms they’re not going to use them.
Do the math.
@ kenneth:
“At some point you might want to stop and think “hey how did we get to this decadent point here in the oh so late great usa ?”.
So sexual victorianism is greatness? Then, my friend, the Taliban and Mr. Ahmedenijad over there are the paradigm. Many would argue that the USA is still pretty great, and to those of us who believe otherwise, sexual decadency is not the biggest problem. Dishonest politics and corporate corruption, maybe.
“Maybe it has to do with your lack of culture or what you perceive as a culture..”
So, a culture you don’t condone is not a culture anymore? That’s a pretty intolerant position you hold.
@Kyle
“But, the thing is, is that sex *inside* of marriage is a beautiful, God-given pleasure.”
Not every married couple would agree with that statement. Crappy sex is crappy, nevermind the paperwork, and the same is true for the vice versa. Plenty of husbands out there who beat their wives. Is that battery sacred because their conjugation is church-authorized?
“My beliefs are either the truth or they are not, they are either good for everyone or no one. This is not a subjective issue like taste, this is an objective issue. So there is no “personal truth” here, there is truth and not truth. Truth is not relative.”
That, my friend, is such a dangerous line of reasoning. I assure you that the folks who slammed that plane into the WTC felt EXACTLY the same. Was their truth absolute, they surely believed it was…
By creating that standard you deny everyone else in the world the freedom to be anything different. If you deny them that, you are denying them a ‘god-given’ right, an evolutionary right, a right that perhaps cannot be explained but most surely exists. Your truth is your truth and your truth alone. I respect you for having it, and wish you no resistance in attaining it, but you are wrong to judge others against it.
@Tim
Props for well-spoken words.
[...] you also know that this spot was awarded a Cannes Lions 2008 Film Bronze award..? wonder woman sexyread more | digg [...]
Hi everyone, I’d just like speak from the point of view of someone “on the fence” (I’m either the worst kind of Christian or the worst kind of agnostic, as atheism requires and absolute confidence akin to religion that there is no God and that it isn’t a remote possibility). Anyway, I’d like to keep my very complicated world view out of it, but instead like to state that Kyle, the right-wing ultra neo-con, believer of the fairytales, is the most civil and attentive person in here. The irony is staggering. Agnostics/atheists/followers of other faiths be warned, you won’t win over Kyle nor people trying to find their way through mangled carnage of religion/anti-religion by resorting to personal attacks and one-liners. 400 years ago, if your argument against the catholic church had been as poorly thought-out and childish as “you believe in a fairy tale, harr,” you’d have payed for your insolence and lack of proper explanation with your lives.
But then, maybe that’s part of it. A certain amount of spite against believers for past atrocities committed in the name of their beliefs. Still, it doesn’t make you better, just petty.
This isn’t really the place for religious debate, but if you’re going to attack Kyle’s view on this commercial, which is based on his religious beliefs, you had better at least explain why you think his views are invalid to the extent he explains the contrary.
Found this page via reddit, btw.
@Kyle
You speak eloquently and I don’t necessarily disagree with your opinions. I think that moral absolutism is an ideal to be strived for and God is the logical embodiment of a morally perfect being, the ultimate truth as it were.
Unfortunately, that’s where it ends for me because it bears no relation to reality, they’re just abstract concepts, useful ones, but theoretical rather than tangible. “Morally perfect” cannot actually exist any more than infinity can. They are just concepts created by human minds to describe indefinable ideas but which can and do still serve a useful purpose, whether it be in matters of choices or matters of science.
It is not dissimilar to Newtons universal laws of matter. The Newtonian “world-view” is absolute and empirical but then along came Einstein and showed us that this can only ever be an approximation of reality, that reality is RELATIVE. That the universe changes depending on your point of reference. And so it is, I’m afraid, with morality. By all means use scripture as your lens with which to view the world, absolutism is a useful compass with which to make “approximations” on the best course of action to take, what choices to make and which opinions to hold. But there is are not really an absolute correct choice to make in any given situation. Contrary to what scripture may tell you, there is more than one truth and it changes depending on your circumstances, your own frame of reference. As the saying goes, there is no black and white, only shades of grey. No right or wrong,, just degrees along a scale, or as I personally like to think of it: nothing is ever one thing or the other, it is always a combination of both.
And so while it is impossible for any reasonable person to oppose the compassionate and often entirely sensible moral guidance offered by the world’s religions, the dogmatic insistence on the absolute moral superiority and certainty that comes from people who hold your world-view is always going to rankle those of us who prefer to live in reality rather than ideology.
This is especially true for me personally when I see people quoting scripture as if it was an authority. It seems people are either unaware of or choose to ignore the obvious contradictions, the outright sadism of some of it and the fact that the version we have today is a highly biased collection of writings edited from a much larger canon of censored gospels by a church which has always acted to restrict our world-view to the narrow one we would expect of humans existing centuries ago. The very source of Christian morality is of such questionable integrity I just really can’t see how people construct their entire world-view based on its contents.
Anyway, what was this thread about again?!
JC Penney has been using the Every Day Matters pitch for a while, so when I saw the commercial, it made sense to me. These commercials have generally not been product-centric.
It’s too bad the kids think they have to sneak around. LOL! Well, I guess I wouldn’t want my Mom to know I was screwing around in the basement …
Isn’t it amazing how the comments herein illustrate the undereducated, uninformed masses, duped by the Christian-opiate used to control free thinking in Amerika? It never ceases to amaze me how people choose to let others, especially god and the church, think for them. And, of course, how god can justify any argument. And, why is it others in this world can see way beyond our myopic thinking? Education, I suppose.
And, with education, would these two kids be knowledgeable about sex? Duh, yes. So we wouldn’t have disease, pregnancy, and all those other horrible human disasters from simply going to the basement?
‘Nuff said.
goddamn you Christians make me so angry. So full of judgement and scorn. How about we judge you on the hundreds of years of cultural rape and homogenizing of indigenous people by your missionaries?
Until you accept responsibility for the crimes committed by God’s followers I think teenagers should bone the shit out of each other. Hell, I’m gonna drop a load of condoms from a plane on all the schools in my area, each one bearing the face of Buddy Jesus – “hey kids, don’t do what I did, no one wants to die a virgin!”
No Christian has any right whatsoever to talk about the right/wrong way to address sex until they put EVERY LAST CHILD MOLESTING PRIEST IN PRISON.
Sexually abusing children? Forgivable and punishable merely by relocation. Teens engaging in consensual sex? Evil! Nice logic.
[...] Supposedly controversial JCPenny commercial. Hint: they wanna do it (Story/Video) [...]
i work for jc penneys and penneys would never do anything like this. that is why i LOVE it! haha! today’s the day to get away with it? oh man. that is great. absolutely love it.
Convivialdingo:
Sex before marriage is not the problem. Despite what you and many others would like to believe, most people DO engage. The problem is the US policy of banning sex education and refusing to fund organisations that teach people how NOT to become sick or pregnant when that is not their intention. THAT is disgusting. Sex is not.
David H., your observation is not based on any fact – at least none that you quoted. In reality, there are to points to consider: one is that sex is often simply a carnal adventure that satisfies a biological need, plain and simple. Secondly, most people do not understand that sex and intimacy are not always present at the same time. Intimacy does not equal sex, nor does sex always come with intimacy.
I disagree with you whole heartedly that teens don’t get it. I will tell you that most teens absolutely understand that sometimes sex is simply for sex’s sake and there will not be, nor do they expect, any corresponding long-term relationships from those casual encounters.
It is adults who place soooo much value on the sex act but have a very immature understanding of intimacy. More about this below.
You in the US do not understand that your media controls what you see with a purpose: you are – and your children and teens – barraged with images of violence, war, blood, guts and discord served with a heavy dose of semi- and full-on dehumanising porn (MTV, soap operas etc).
What you are not exposed to is appropriate sexuality, appropriate, loving, human relationships and appropriate, rational understanding of sex.
In various European countries, guns and violence rarely appear on TV; however, human sexuality – appropriate, not pornographic – is the norm and understood. Children are raised to understand their bodies and how to treat them and each other. In those countries, sex is understood to be as necessary a function as eating and breathing.
Tellingly, in those non-puritanical countries, where religion is not the coercive, angry, critical overlord, rape and sexual assaults are relatively rare, as are violent attacks and related crimes.
Compare that to the US, where sexual and violent crimes rule. Then again, teaching people to be violent and demonizing a healthy, biologically necessary human function sure makes for a bunch of angry, confused, violent soldiers…. Seriously. Think about it!
Kyle:
Your arguments are based on ancient tribal documents that have been cobbled-together, rewritten, revised and edited by MANY people who had/have an agenda.
There is precisely NO historical evidence, archaeological or otherwise, for the existence of your man-god. With some 30 historians writing at that time, you would think one of them would document your man-god, but NONE did. There is, however, extensive proof that your ‘deity’ is a ‘modern’ recreation of the Egyptian Horus. Go here to read up; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus
Dare you!
A reliance on a mythical, angry, old, bearded white guy who hangs about in the clouds directing human traffic demonstrates a fearful, immature mind that is unwilling to take control of its own life.
As for the biblical demonisation of sex, that process was as useful back in the day as it is now for controlling who inherited what (via establishing which children were ‘legitimate’ and which were the children of concubines, for instance) and for creating leagues of angry, frustrated men who are quite willing to go to war and kill people because killing for one’s tribe/country is deemed by said cloud-god as good, whereas taking care of one’s mental and physical health via sex is somehow ‘dirty.’ What a sad thing. See the modern US armies and the Taliban for very good examples of how sexual deprivation and deionisation of the act make for lots of angry, frustrated, unstable men.
Sex is a necessary, useful, pleasurable biological function which serves to keep the body and mind healthy. The simple fact of “wet dreams” demonstrates that the body’s biology will override religion.
Demonisation and deprivation make for very, very unhealthy, mentally unstable humans. See the Catholic priesthood for reference, or see most paedophiles, in whose pasts there is almost always sexual abuse, first of all, and secondly, a religious parent or two with a very weird, damaging perspective on a normal human function. Jeffrey Dalmer was a very good example of that.
Religious coercion and control has no place in the bedrooms of consenting peoples, even if those people happen to be a couple of unmarried 18 year olds, nor does the stupid, failed Bush policy of teaching abstinence.
It made me smile. Took me right back to high school when I did exactly the same thing. I was just never smart enough to practice dressing so fast. We just prayed no one would come downstairs. Kind of added a little danger to the whole thing.
I thought it was a pretty creative and funny advertisement.
WriterWriter has it all right:
“In various European countries, guns and violence rarely appear on TV; however, human sexuality – appropriate, not pornographic – is the norm and understood. Children are raised to understand their bodies and how to treat them and each other. In those countries, sex is understood to be as necessary a function as eating and breathing.”
“Controversial” only to Americans.
And you know why that happens in Europe, because a long time ago all the prudes from Europe moved, where you might ask, to America, its not really surprising that Europe is so open about human sexuality while Americans aren’t. As for the advertisement, it was clever and reminds you of when you were a kid and just hoped your mom didn’t pop in the room.
funny commercial…i knew what was going on almost right away cause i can see a younger me doing the same thing reminded me of how much it sucked to live at home.
but as a commercial for a department store…it was terrible. i would not have remembered what it was for if i saw it out of the blue.
God Bless you Calvin….
Calvin on June 30th, 2008 2:20 am
Just because these ultra-conservative, Jesus-humping, right-wing nutcases annoy the hell out of me, I’m going to have extra sex this week.
Not only that, it will be completely outside the context of marriage, and if I’m lucky, it will be with more than one person.
Honestly, get lost, sex is great. Marriage is not. The United States has 50% divorce rates, so take your little marriage tirade and shove it.
P.S.: Personally, I love how many gay couples are now getting married in California. Haha! Eat that, you freaks!
haha.
“aw, cute” > “cute, but shouldn’t be shown” > “teen sex is bad” > “god gave us sex” > “god is a fairytale” > “Europe pwns the US!”
I love teh interwebz.
[...] This is the commercial everyone has been talking about. Did you also know that this spot was awarded a Cannes Lions 2008 Film Bronze award..? (story) [...]
Yes, we are all aware that many teens have sex. But, because they do doesn’t mean it’s right. Because our culture now always strives to be “cool” instead of seeking what is right –the culture suffers decadence. This decadence will mean that today you may feel that “accepting” teen sex as O.K. and normal –why the fuss? But it will mean that in YOUR tomorrow don’t complain when YOUR kids think that eating dog sh*t is just an extension of open sexuality and why aren’t you cool about it and understand? If you don’t hold the line now when will you hold the line on decadence? At eating dog sh*t when everybody “knows” it’s cool? In other words, old fashion values are to keep the world from sliding into total culture evil. Liberal “coolness” hides decadence and decadence is evil masqueraded.
Define Irony.
Live in a country that was found on freedom, primarily because a group wanted to have freedom to worship God in the ways they wanted to. Then in a very short time (a little less than 400 years, so America is still a baby) people are now persecuted for those beliefs. Trace every family tree of each agnostic and anti Christian person and you’ll find a believer in their family, most within 2 generations.
To deny a higher power is no only ignorant, but is not only more arrogant than “bible thumpers” it is to deny your own history. To say it’s all hocus pocus shows that one has never experimented with religion, nor tried to allow a higher power to work in their life. You commonly accept man’s laws as rules or standards to live by, but never question where the commonality for human decency comes from. To deny God is to say we would have no lines for good vs. evil. Anarchy would be the standard. Crimes against humanity would make no sense, as we would have no inner guiding conscience. So, if you can deny God as a myth or fable, where does that inner guidance come from?
you americans are fucking crazy, honestly, i came upon this post, watched the film, enjoyed it, thought it was clever, romantic, cute, naive, healthy, normal, delicate, tasteful, funny and honestly very very prude compared to what we see here in europe.
[for those who don't understand what it has to do with JCP, it's pretty obvious that it has everything to do with it because the whole point is seduction and clothes these days are amongst the prominent means of seduction (which is in my opinion the only sad thing about this add but that's personal and it's another subject...)]
so… i really had a hard time understanding where the controversy was, in all honesty the fact that it could be the sexual aspect of it was so far from my mind… until of course.. i read the first crazy mother fucking evangetical freak speak his mind and then i understood. back to the frieking bible… oh my god, it’s about time you all do something in that country to break away from that issue, it’s getting very scary, it’s sickening and completelly outdated. go see the world, things are moving forwad, there are important issues to tackle, drop this fanaticism. especially when you crazy jesus loving fools are the ones dropping bombs on innocent people for their supposed fanaticism, you are so hypocritical and self-absorbed it’s sickenning.
let people live a normal and natural life and youth, and let there be sex and intelligent youth who has a brain to think and speak and who is not constantly considered like a vulnerable three year old child who cannot think for himself.
america is full of jesus loving frieks and it’s also the country with far more teen-pregnancy than any other developped country so please keep you stupid jesus morals to yourselves it has never prevented kids from having sex. i would’nt even be surprised if the majority of teen pregnancy came from crazy god loving populations, where everything is taboo and life makes no sense and kids are confused and sad and angry.
it’s time to move beyond this stupid issue, keep god to yourself, it’s your right to live by imaginary horribly constraining rules and support the world’s most terrorist government but just keep it to yourself and let everyne else live in peace.
now, i thought this add was interesting, when i saw there was a controversy, what came to my mind was maybe a discussion on the graphic style chosen, or the fact that it was a little too cheezy or the ending which is not super subtle, could have done better i think… wouldn’t it be so much more profitable to have a discussion on the quality of imagery, we have here a great piece of modern culture, let’s take it for what it is and talk about THAT, and let it evolve. if there’s one thing american youth suffers from is repression and frustration, being shut down in their evolution by crazy fools, making arguments that are irrelevant and so far from them and turning them into sick laws and sick governments who praise only sick consumerism and sick fucking jesus.
aaaarghrr
@ Kyle
I find it imposable to believe that you think you’re points are still at all based in logic when you’ve now admitted that any argument you use is used to support an idea born out of faith. That you can’t see the major problem with this is exactly the problem with a lot of the modern religious views coming out of America.
You can not have a predefined answer that you then go out to support with logic. This is a simple universal truth and is the base for the scientific method. To dismiss it so flippantly as to skip this truth in favour of one born out of faith rather than observation is what i see as a fundamental flaw in any one who wants to argue a point on logic. Again this is why i asked to state the fact that your logic is after the fact rather than the lead up to you’re views beacuse it renders your logic well that worthless.
In my family there are currently 3 PhDs based around cancer research and a medical doctorate. while i my self am firmly agnostic in my view to the world my mother (owner of one of those PhD) for example has a deep faith but would never ever do what you are doing beacuse it makes no sense. the bible no matter what it is is a item of faith and from that a item that must be a figurative object and not truth. I could get rather deeply in to the exact reasons of why if god exists he has to exist as an out side context problem and so anything that exist in out context can never be the truth. Let alone a book that has been so mauled by politics that it almost bears not resemblance to the truth of what happened.
I’m not trying to talk you out of you’re faith, far from it, and i’m not trying to start an argument about if god exists. What i am trying to do is get you to understand that logic dose not shut out faith but if you start with a blind faith it will almost always shut out logic. Given that you’re sat at a computer should give you some clue as to why this is an important thing to understand. In other words logic tells us the earth goes around the sun, faith in the truth of the bible tell us it doesn’t. Unless you want to talk about vast global and scientific conspiracy the bible is wrong… yet the bible offers a remarkable figurative understanding of the world for the people of its time.
What i’m trying to get at is that you can not use blind faith in the bible as truth can not be used as anything other than a personal belief in this case. You simply can not argue that your logic means anything at this point and the fact you can’t see that it amazingly sad.
You also say that you object to sex education. Why? you can teach you’re kids all the morals and abstinence all you like but that are free thinking free willed people and they will make there own choices. That you are willing to leave them open to all the problems you claim you are trying to protect them from or you can cover all the angles and protect them in every way you can given that they have the ability to make there own choices and they may choice not to believe your truth.
the abstinence movement that has started in the US has hurt and endangered more teenages in terms of sex than anything else in recent history. It’s an abomination it is ugly and it born out of your “truth” how you can reconcile that i have honestly no idea.
I know at this stage nothing i can say will have the slightest impact on you and that makes me sad. You’re closed off and i honestly hope that your closed mind dose not harm your children. You will no doubt say you’re not an evil man but the simple fact is that you are willing to leave you children less protected from the world based on your faith in an old book. To me that is honestly sicking.
no wonder america has to many angry and confused kids. only worry about boning hoes and being hoes.
you people need to grow a brain and stop taking drugs.
no wonder you people are so fat and depressed and take guns to school and beat up girl-friends.
NUTS!
Cool commercial. It’s not that controversial, I guess; teen sex, meh. But it’s still interesting.
FUCK
i just want to see it ….
To Everyone commenting who’s posts exceeded four paragraphs:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you are pretty pathetic! Think anyone reads all that? You have too much time on your hands and clearly think your opinion is important (which it is not.)
My witty comment: I don’t care how quickly those two can get dressed, it will still be three times longer than the actual lovemaking. THANK YOU I AM A COMMENT GOD
@DJ
Ill define irony for you:
A bible thumper invoking our founding fathers quest for religious freedom when rationalizing forcing your religious beliefs on us (implicit, because this has turned into a debate about pre-marital sex and you are espousing religious morals that we should all live by).
Saying we should all believe in god because our forefathers did, they also believed in leeches to cure disease, lead can be turned to gold and the earth is flat (3, 4 and 8 generations respectivley).
Calling rational, self-directed thought ignorant and arrogant when thinking that someone is arrogant for thinking for themselves is just ignorant.
To say someone calling it hocus pocus has never tried it. When I was a child, I did believe, but I always had logical thoughts that it seems like hocus pocus but it must be true if all these adults believe it. Never underestimate the naivety of a child!!
Saying “you”, scientists I assume, never question where morals come from when in fact many neurological studies have been undertaken and seem to point towards the brain being genetically hardwired to have these “morals” including compassion and altruism.
You aligning high morals with religion when the most dramatic acts of humanity have nothing to do with religion and some of the most heinous acts in history are a direct result of religion.
I didn’t really understand what was so controversial about this commercial until I started reading the comment thread. Can we please, please, PLEASE leave politics and religion out of sexuality?
Hi Dr. Bob,
Dont know if it really matters or not, but our forfathers were Deists, not theists. Most held the philosophy that a long-dead creator played no role in out day to day affairs.
to all those bashing this commercial for being controversial and promoting teenage sex….get over yourselves! its witty! i agree to a comment someone wrote saying “controversial only to Americans” … so true. i would love to see all the uptight American people go to a beach in Italy and be shocked that people change into bathing suits on the actual beach. oh my! nudity! ahh controversy! man i love being European. the first thing my mom always asks me when i come home on a break from college is if id had sex. anyways, nothing wrong with the commerical…im sure kids already were doing that before this ran.
Alright,
First off, I have specifically avoided calling myself a Christian so far because of the preconceived notions attached and the harm that has been done by claiming to be Christians and misrepresenting God. I would not call myself a Christian at all, rather I consider myself a follower of the Way as originally taught by Jesus and the apostles. I would also never want to legislate my beliefs or force them on others. That serves no purpose whatsoever other than causing resentment. The only way to change anything to share the Gospel with people and for people to have an individual relationship with God. There’s no other way that can do any good, politics won’t work to legislate morality on people who don’t believe in it, I wouldn’t try it. So that’s not my goal at all. There is freedom to believe and to some extent do what you want in America and I would never silence you, you have the right express your opinions, just as I have the right to express mine. It doesn’t mean that we have to agree, just that we can both talk. So talk away.
Also I never said sex is bad, taboo, or dirty. I said that sex outside of marriage is wrong according to God.
Now to deal with the comments:
Tim, I’ll address your comments first.
First off, you’re right about abstinence education for public schools. It doesn’t work. It won’t work unless the kids have a personal relationship with God to base it off of, I would never expect them to have the strength to resist without that so it would be pointless to teach them abstinence. Even the kids with a relationship with God are not immune to having sex. One of my close friends here at Bible College had sex with his girlfriend before the fall semester and he eventually told the leadership and he was removed from the school. He confessed, was dealt with and was accepted back for the spring semester. I never judged him and I do not judge those who have sex outside of marriage, it’s not my place, the Bible says that judgment is not my job, but God’s.
I maintain that my points are logically supported, because I maintain that the Word of God is true and if it is true and my positions are based on what it says then they too are true. My faith is far from blind, the New Testament is THE most reliable ancient document in existence. If you throw out the veracity of the NT (New Testament) you would have to discard the Aeneid, the Oddessy, the writings of the Caesar’s, Tacitus, Josephus, and every other ancient document. There are over 24,000 ancient manuscript copies of the NT in existence with as little as 40 to 60 years gap between the original writing and the copies we have today, in the most extreme other end the largest gap between time of writing and extant copies is 250 years. Compare that to Julius Caesar’s “The Gallic Wars” which has 10 existing copies with a gap of 1,000 years, Pliny the Younger’s “Natural History” which has 7 copies with a 750 year gap, and Tacitus’s “Annals” with 20 copies and a 1,00 year gap. The New Testament could also be entirely reconstructed with the exception of 11 verses from the writings of the church fathers who quote it ove 86,000 times. If the New Testament is unreliable then we have to throw out everything that we know of classical history. All of it. We would know nothing but archeology. Now, to address the allegations of contradictions: Please provide examples of contradictions before you claim that they exist. If you have no examples, then you have contradictions. Then you have all the fulfilled prophecy, the archaeological evidence, the internal consistency, the external support of ancient historians, and it’s scientific accuracy. Additionally, you have the Bible’s willingness to tell of the failures of the men involved, and the willingness of the disciples to suffer for the Gospel that they preached. If you want to see all of that covered just visit http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=99&Itemid=0
Also, on your mother’s faith and unwillingness to act on it: If I do NOT act on my beliefs, why believe them? Belief, not put into practice is not belief, but intellectual assent. I do believe what I talk about so I live my life based on it, just as you live your life based on agnosticism.
@ Dr. Rev. Bob:
The studies you cite in which morals are linked to certain regions of the brain are false according to a microbiologist I know. He’s an associate professor of biology at Azusa Pacific university and he told me when I asked him about it that the studies are inconclusive. If the brain is hardwired towards compassion and altruism and God does not exist and we evolved, given all that, then we evolved rather poorly, those traits do not lend themselves to survival. It’s obviously right for a firefighter to rush into a burning building at great risk to his own life to save an old lady or we would not laud such men as heroes. But according to evolution that’s a horrible choice. The best choice from a survival of the fittest standpoint is to let the old lady die to preserve the firefighters great genes and to better the species by removing the old lady’s drain on our species resources. That is clearly the best thing from a evolutionary standpoint, preserve the strong, eliminate the weak, but if the firefighter did that we would call him a coward and a fool. Why would we evolve that sentiment if it is inimical to our species propagation?
@ WriterWriter:
I went to the wiki page that you linked to. I don’t see the connection there honestly, I know nothing that is similar between Jesus Christ and Horus other than the story of Horus dying and being brought back to life and the account of the resurrection. However, that does not change the fact that Jesus has been proved to actually have lived and Horus never did. Or that Jesus fulfilled a multitude of specific prophecies and Horus did not.
Umm… The historians did record the existence of Jesus. The Jewish Mishna contains a reference, Josephus talked about him and said He was said to be the Messiah. See: Joshephus’ “Jewish Antiquities” 18:63 Tacitus also refers to the Christians in his “Annals” in the account of the burning of Rome, and says that “Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus” (15:44) Tacitus was a secular Roman historian who considered Christians a “disease” as he calls them later on in the passage. Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger also contain accounts of Christians and of Christ. Add to that evidence the fact that the New Testament is far more reliable that any of those documents according to the academic standards of ancient documents and you have proof that Jesus did in fact exist.
@ Those who condemn Christianity and the Bible for atrocities.
Yes, the church and those calling themselves Christians have committed atrocities. I maintain that none of those were accurate representations of the teachings of the Bible or Jesus. This is the very reason I avoid the term Christian when referring to myself and my beliefs. There is too much baggage attached that is not Biblically based. On the other hand, holding modern Christians responsible for the crimes of their forbearers is ridiculous. It is tantamount to holding all communists responsible for making reparations for the crimes of Chairman Mao Tse-Tung. You wouldn’t do that, so why hold me responsible for the crimes of the Inquisition? It is neither constructive or plausible to do. Concerning the crimes of the pedophile priests: the punishment for them under Levitical law would be death. God does not tolerate it, nor do I. They have massively misrepresented God and given cause to other to blaspheme. That is the reason Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land and the reason I have jumped on some people who follow my side of this discussion. It’s not right and I’m not afraid to say so.
@ Isaac
Saying that everything is relative is self defeating, because that statement is an absolute statement. If everything were relative, things would be relative for you and absolute for me. It’s a contradiction. I’m sorry, truth, by definition is exclusive. Sure, there are subjective things. Some people say apples are better tasting than strawberries, some people say the opposite, that is a matter of personal taste. Morals cannot be subjective, otherwise I could say that stealing your car is moral for me and you could say that it isn’t. Whose truth trumps the other person’s? Sure, decisions will change based on circumstances but there is an absolute system of morality that guides all choices and determines right and wrong. If it is true that right and wrong depend on a point of view then from their point of view the Inquisitors were right, but they obviously were not. See my other note on the accuracy of the Scriptures.
@ raza:
Crappy sex is crappy sex. I was not talking about whether the sex felt good or not, I was talking about moral, not qualitative goodness. Sorry for the confusion! I’ll try to do better next time!
The men who beat their wives are in no way justified by anything in the Bible, in fact is condemned. Husbands are told to honor their wives in numerous passages and to love them as Christ loves the church. Christ loved the church enough to die for her, husbands should be willing to die for their wives. That obviously excludes beating your wife.
Your point about the WTC attackers is valid. They believed that they had truth and were willing to kill for it. But I submit that they did not have truth because the truth of the Bible condemns murder outright. There is a difference between believing you have truth and actually having truth. I maintain that the Bible is truth and that it comes from a God of love who is the embodiment of ultimate truth. God would never sanction an act of terrorism like that. I would die for my faith, but I wouldn’t kill someone in the process. There’s a difference. I wouldn’t kill for my religion, I would let myself be killed by others without resistance. The Bible tells us to submit to governmental authorities in all things unless they tell you do violate the commands of God, if America told me that I could not follow Jesus I would continue to follow Jesus. The government in my state (yes I live in California) allows gay marriage, fine, that’s what the government says, I have to abide by that. I have no cause to rebel based on that law. I don’t agree, but that’s my right. I don’t have to agree. I do not hate gays and neither does God. I had a gay relative who died when I was young, and I don’t think any less of him.
@ Gramage:
I’m not trying to stop you having sex, I maintain that God says it’s wrong though.
@ Thomas:
God exists, see above.
@ Steve Bartz:
I’m a full time student off for the summer so no lost productivity here!
I care about this so I will respond, it’s that simple. Sorry if this bothers you! But seriously, what about the other guys with long posts? Why single me out?
@ momo:
Seriously. But then they have to deal with FCC obscenity statues and that’s to much hassle. Oh well, who ever said TV was real anyway?
~Kyle
There is nothing wrong with sex before marriage. There are so many ways that people can protect themselves now-a-days. There will always be a risk, but there will always be a risk in everything.
People are going to do what they want and when they want it. If we could educate kids about sex (by teaching them BOTH abstinence AND contraception methods) we could stop the majority of unwanted pregnancies and STDS. And just a side note, you don’t have to be a teenager to have an unwanted pregnancy. There are plenty of adults out there, having their fair share of abortions.
In the end, this was a funny, clever commercial.
Enjoy it.
@Kyle
Of all my points, you definitely picked the wrong one to call me out on. Your microbiologist friend probably isnt quite as up on his neurobiology as I am seeing my doctorate is physiology and my department is ~50% neuroscientists.
Actually, I wont even go that deep to prove my point. Thousands of species have been shown to exhibit tens of thousands of different kinds of altruism all at a distinct advantage to “survival”. “survival” in an evolutionary sense is measured as reproductive fitness, this is an individuals ability to have its genes passed on to future generations.
To use your own example, a fireman running into a burning building to save an old lady is the extreme end of the spectrum. Even at this extreme lets say he was running into a burning building to save his own baby, this would be very advantageous evolutionarily because this behavior would be helping his reproductive fitness. Now realize you have the same degree of relatedness to you brothers and sisters as you do to your own child so this behavior would be equally advantageous to save them. So its easy to see in situations where social groups are small and interrelated (human packs of hunter-gatherers tens of thousands of years ago) that altruistic behavior makes perfect evolutionary sense. If the brain is hardwired to help others around you, these behaviors become the norm, moral if you will.
BTW, Do Christian colleges even teach evolution? Is this line of reasoning going to open a whole new can of worms?
Want a real world example, a hallmark of a psychopath is the lack of empathy. Empathy is the great underpinning to all our morals and clinical evaluation of psychopaths have been shown them time and again to have mis-wired brains. Genetic abnormality = lack of morals NOT lack of god = lack of morals.
Ok, I am a fuddy duddy but this is not appropriate. C’mon, we have enough sex on television but everyone has to push the envelope. It’s where are headed as a nation and that is not a good thing. The boundaries continue to get pushed outward. Where does it stop. Apparently it doesn’t. And that’s not a good thing. See the violence in our society. Believe it or not, this stuff contributes to it.
Wow. All of that over a small commercial.
I do have something to say. Every single person has their own truths according to their experiences and what has been taught by their parents. Hence, passing the sin on to the son, as stated in your bible, Kyle. If the parents don’t know God’s truths, in no way can they pass it on to their children and that includes everything they have read, believed in, acted on, etc. Kyle, your family has passed their truths on to you concerning sex and marriage. The bible is not the word of God. God would have had to come down from the center of the universe, become material and write it for Himself. If that ever did happen, you, the universes and everything He created would cease to exist. God created Love first and formost. Having sex weather married or not, while loving the partner, is everything God would approve of. If you had sex with someone you hated, it would be a different story. What would you do if your wife caught and STD while you were married Kyle? It is possible. Our big brother Jesus would approve of sex while in love and not married because He knew God and lived the Love of God. Your bible doesn’t teach that because it’s all messed up with what HUMANS want you to belive. I don’t like the bible and I would only use it to compare it with the truths that I am learning from Jesus through channeled messages. You have a fragment of God within you so you don’t even need a bible or a church to learn from God. All that is needed is to listen to that still small voice inside of you to learn the ultimate truth. I’m a minister, I have lived with my boyfriend for 7 years and we have awesome sex. Why am I not being punished? I’ll tell you why. Because I live in LOVE.
- Love commands the universe. Man only resorts to control when LOVE is missing. – Jesus
I can’t stand fucking people trying to pass judgment on what people should or should not do.
That is what America is all about. FREEDOM.
Fuck all you communist bastards.
i’m gunna say something that i think really needs to be said here…
POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP(jesus)
yeah… hows that for controversy… you know what -
jews
woah that will shake things up a bit
The problem isn’t teenage sex. Or sex before marriage, or STDs or pregnancy or abortions.
The problem is that this commercial has absolutely nothing to do with JCPenny.
For a comparison of Horus and Jesus check out http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm
Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and all the other world religions past and present are simply myths.
The JC Penney commercial is cute, I suppose, but it has nothing at all to do with the store itself. And while it hardly merits the walls of text on religion, science, politics, and pop-culture that have followed it has still been an interesting read
[...] så kontroversiell at den har blitt stoppet. Toppen på kransekaken er å lese kommentarene til noen av folkene på denne bloggen. Les for eksempel denne karen: You enjoyed it ? You like that kids have sex out of wedlock ? You [...]
[...] Link: Here it is the controversial JCPenny Commercial. [...]
Okay, first, I thought the video was awesome. There was a slight confusion at first pertaining to what the heck the kids were doing, but the ending wrapped everything up effectively and it’s obvious the director(s) have talent. (Note: A lot of talent, I wish I were that good.) It is interesting that nobody thinks the commercial was about JC Penny. I thought it was saying that JC Penny has clothes you can shed and don very quickly. (And if it gets me quality time with that girl, I’m on board!)
Second, everytime I hear the sinners and preachers bash each other up on the net, I lose respect for both sides. The preachers are so stuck up because they’re going to heaven, and the sinners are so stuck up because they’re pretty sure nobody is going to heaven.
Atheists, you cannot win! Religious people will always see the miracle in birth, and don’t appreciate it when you say that all of their good feelings don’t really exist.
Religious fanatics, you can’t win until you are dead, so see you around!
[...] Did you also know that this spot was awarded a Cannes Lions 2008 Film Bronze award..? X Men adultread more | digg story RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI Cartoons Fans Lounge [...]
@Clsfd Kidd
EVERYONE GOES TO HEAVEN. If you understood what that means, you wouldn’t be saying what you did. It doesn’t matter if we are saints or sinners, Heaven is one BIG place. Thanks for bashing ministers when you have no idea of what I teach. I’m not your typical minister. I believe in free will, equality among men and women and that God is our ultimate goal. Some of us take the long scenic route while others take the short boring route. I’d much rather have the scenic route because that gives me strength, courage, wisdom and makes me happy.
- Freak
So these comments are mindblowing – amazing, really. Top quality entertainment.
But the video is no longer available.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
trolls? ????????????????????????????????????
15 year-olds having sex is so passe’ ????????????
I pity your children (oh wait… you aborted them all).
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Reverend
Sorry to lump you in with all the other preachers. You obviously have no problems with Atheism, and are a tolerant human being.
If what you say is correct, I would say you would be one of the people advocating freedom of mind, which is what Atheism is all about. Instead of saying sinners and preachers, perhaps I should have said, tolerant people and intolerant people.
@Tyler
I completely agree… Quality entertainment at its finest.
[...] some kind of demo reel that directors use to show off their respective abilities (from the article). I’d never shop at JCPenny. I just thought the commercial is definitely worth [...]
Bridesmaid dress….
Dress barn. Prom dress. Dress-up. Dress up games. Evening dress patterns. Dress up anime….
Ad and Marketing Execs. #1 want to create a “buzz” amongst various age groups with this commercial and what will that do besides shock or rock? That Buzz will multiply and divide mulitply and divide etc. that way everyone will be doing “free” advertising for the name JcPenney whenever the story is related. #2 They have preyed on a statistic of how quite a few teens behave. Why? to get the kiddies to think that Jcpenny is so funny and cool and want to shop there for their clothes. They didnt care that their commercial was encouraging kids to go do such things they only want the money . They dont even care how bad they look because with all the Buzz sales are sure to go up in a self centered society that doesnt feel the need to censor anything no matter what the consequences. #3 maybe as an added cheapshot bonus sales in watches/underwear/and baby department are also down. Anyone who came up with the commercial and had anything to do with the making of or broadcasting feels it is alright to have sex outside of marriage and encourages that and cant possibly have any real belief in anything but worshipping money.
Religion is a bronze age superstition many people are too afraid to give up. It’s so full of holes and lies and just plain stupidity that anyone that follows it is demonstrating they have not evolved mentally; usually due to environmental stresses. It’s a natural, but dangerous, state.
For instance when you have nothing, or afraid of losing everything, you don’t have the luxury of doubt. You NEED there to be a magical space man that looks down on you and has a plan for you. That makes life livable when you have not evolved your intellect to see beyond that simple, animal desire for safety.
Religion is a lie we tell children to make them do what we want, just like Santa Claus. But what these same lying parents don’t realize is the churches are lying to them in just the same way. Religion has gotten so good at control you aren’t even allowed to question it. Just like parents don’t want their children to question them, even when the parent knows they are wrong, they just want the kid to obey. Just like the churches.
Here’s just one example of the sickness that is religion:
Asked if there was an emergency, Schlosser calmly responded “Yes,” according to 911 tapes released by police.
“Exactly what happened?” the 911 operator asked.
“I cut her arms off,” Schlosser replied, as the hymn “He Touched Me” played in the background.
“You cut her arms off?” he repeated.
“Uh huh,” she answered.
—-
Well praise Jesus huh? “God” told her to kill her baby so she did, without question. And that is why religion, and any unquestionable belief, is dangerous and should be voluntarily eradicated. Let’s all get our heads out of the bronze age and move into the quantum age where reality is.
Peace
[...] a high-quality Penney’sad, and even features the retailer’s new theme “Today’s the day.” (click here to view the video) The thing is,though, that J.C. Penney had nothing to do with it. In fact, they weren’t evenaware [...]